Talk:Jovian (Disambiguation)
What happened to USR 5 (old one not the Ghor one)? Gandrayda is''' part of an unknown species too and ' not a member of this one! ''Metroid101 23:35, April 20, 2010 (UTC) Gandrayda is said to be similar to this species as both are shapeshifting biomorphs. So she's mentioned here cause she may be one of them. --[[User:RoyboyX|''R''oy''b''oy'']][[User talk:RoyboyX|''X]]{ADMIN} 23:38, April 20, 2010 (UTC) :She is said to may be one of them... that doesn't mean that she is one of them. Metroid101 23:54, April 20, 2010 (UTC) ::We don't say that she is in the article. We have an article for a known species and one for a known character. The link between them presented in the game is portrayed correctly in the articles and that is all we can really do, pal. ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 05:22, April 21, 2010 (UTC) :::We mention her in this one which is okay but we also deleted the old USR 5 which was gandrayda's species. --Metroid101 :::We don't know that she has a species or that such a species would be a different subject from this one. Such an article would be fanon and promote inaccuracy. ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 19:38, April 21, 2010 (UTC) The solution was right under our noses all this time... It's Jovian, guys! It has to be! If Jovian Steel and USR 4 both come from Jovia, then Jovian is the obvious name for this. --[[User:RoyboyX|''R''oy''b''oy''X]] (Talk • • UN) 15:42, January 23, 2011 (UTC) Well. This is... somewhat well-substantiated, actually. A bit speculative, but it ''is actually a name.--AdmiralSakai 15:49, January 23, 2011 (UTC) Biomorphs of Jovia XII The facts are these: Gandrayda "Possesses metamorphic ability similar to the biomorphs of Jovia XII." I've been thinking about this one since removing the speculation from several articles last night. I had originally intended to propose renaming this page "biomorphs of Jovia XII", since that would be an official name taken straight from the Logbook. Then, I thought about shortening that title to simply "biomorph", since that also seemed to be a descriptive title that is notably distinct from bioform (the term usually used to describe life-forms in the Metroid series), and its name is also evocative of a shape-shifting ("morph") life-form ("bio"). Just to see if the term "biomorph" is used elsewhere in the series, I did a quick search on Wikitroid and found two other scans: Gorea and Triskelion. The former uses "biomorph" in its adjective form "biomorphic" to describe the changing nature of Gorea's shoulders. However, the latter uses "biomorph" as a verb, i.e. as a synonym for "transform". In real life, "biomorph" is a noun referring to a design that is evocative of organisms (especially primitive ones such as amoeba). It doesn't actually refer to something that is alive (although the Metroid series could always play fast and loose with using real world terms), but rather something that mimics the appearance of something alive. This got me thinking... what if we got this all wrong because of ambiguous syntax? What if the "biomorphs of Jovia XII" doesn't refer to shapeshifting inhabitants of a location, but rather something called Jovia XII that is able to adopt the shapes of other living beings? In other words, the Logbook could be directly comparing Gandrayda's shapeshifting to Jovia XII's own ability to mimic other life-forms. Now, I do realize that this is all speculation, and Wikitroid has a forum for that kind of discussion. However, the reason I bring this to an actual talk page is because it calls into question the validity of the "Jovian" and Jovia XII articles, and could be potential grounds for their deletion or merging. With only a single sentence with ambiguous syntax, who can tell what "the biomorphs of Jovia XII" truly means? We can certainly infer that "the biomorphs" are life-forms and "Jovia XII" is a location like we currently do, but we don't know that for sure. TL;DR version: We may need to consider deleting/merging Jovian and Jovia XII since we have so little information about them that isn't speculation. Any thoughts? --PeabodySam (talk) 13:17, February 5, 2019 (UTC) :You can see above for the reason I decided to rename this page Jovian, a reason I still stand by. However, Biomorphs of Jovia XII wouldn't be nonsensical as a name (I wrote a page called Long hall, so all bets are off, really). :I feel that identifying the biomorphs let's say as a species is fine, until we find any official evidence or receive clarification that they are not. We did assume "BSL" (Melissa Bergman/MB) was human after the E3 trailer, but we had no reason to think otherwise until MOM came out. Jovia XII isn't necessarily a planet though, you're right. Phrygis is a moon and sentients still live there. Personally, I feel that the biomorphs are more likely a sentient species than anything else. I would not agree with a merge or deletion. [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 14:58, February 5, 2019 (UTC) ::I'm just trying to carefully consider what's explicitly stated in canon versus what is very easy (or logical) to assume or extrapolate. And unfortunately, we really don't have much of the former. ::I'm not sure "assuming MB is human" is a fair comparison, since even the game's story expects the player to make that mistake. A more apt comparison would be when Wikitroid assumed that "Dragotex" was the name of the Gripper because all that was known about Dragotex was that it's "a sleeping enemy with a giant mouth"; that's a more avoidable mistake based on speculation and limited information. ::My only issue with the conjectural name "Jovian" is that it is a real term referring to Jupiter, which may cause some confusion since a Jovian should be an inhabitant of Jupiter, not Jovia. The argument is also based on Jovian steel, which is never explicitly connected to Jovia XII. "Biomorphs of Jovia XII", while a clunkier title, at least avoids the issue altogether. ::The reason I suggest a merging is only because everything we know about Jovia XII and its biomorphs can be condensed into a single sentence (since a single sentence is all that we have in canon). Kinda like how the shipyards of Aliehs III don't have a separate article from Aliehs III itself. My own personal rule of thumb (which, I acknowledge, doesn't apply to everyone) when it comes to creating wiki articles is "only write articles that you have info to write about". ::I put together a quick proposal for the Jovia XII article, which also happens to cover all known info about the biomorphs (and therefore would negate the need for a separate article). All speculative info is given its own "Theories" section, akin to Elephant Bird#Theories. Perhaps we need a "Theories" header like the non-canon or conjectural ones... --PeabodySam (talk) 16:11, February 5, 2019 (UTC) :::I did propose such a header a while back, but it got voted down. A lot of users here prefer to have no speculation. [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 05:27, February 7, 2019 (UTC) :::Follow up: I think your rework of Jovia XII is good and could be implemented, but I wouldn't merge "Jovian" into it. How about this: you could rework Jovian into a "Biomorph" article, and discuss Gorea, Trace and Gandrayda and their respective shapeshifting abilities. It could be that biomorphing is considered the in-universe term for shapeshifting, like bioform is for a species. [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 05:32, February 7, 2019 (UTC) ::::That could work. Would this be sufficient? --PeabodySam (talk) 20:55, February 7, 2019 (UTC) :::::I believe it would. [[User:RoyboyX|'R'o'y'b'o'y'X']](complaints/ ) 16:32, February 8, 2019 (UTC)